Ok, so moving from total expertise in WoW to total noobness in SWTOR, I need a little help w/ stats.

I dug this up at noxxic.com:

Aim >= Accuracy (110%) > Surge (75%) > Power > Crit (30%) > Alacrity

Not exactly sure how to read it or if it's accurate, about all I could find, but if I assume it's accurate, and take from other posts in this forum where targets for stats are:

Crit 35% or 300 to 350
Surge 75% or 285 to 300
Accuracy 98% to 100% or 285 to 300

And here are my current stas as currently equipped / modded:

Aim 2174
Accuracy 151
Surge 439
Power 395
Crit 637
Alacrity 144
Endurance 2230

If I've got all this right, it would appear to me that I'm way over on crit, over on surge, and about 1/2 what I need in accuracy.

So my questions are, have I assumed correctly, if so, it looks like I should shed some crit and surge and go for more accuracy. If that's the case I have two choices, I can change enhancements / mods, or I could shed some reflex (aim) augments and go for accuracy augments.

Any suggestions? And thanks in advance for help, trying to get DPS up and contribute more....

Step 1: Do not go to Noxxic
Step 2: DO NOT GO TO NOXXIC
Step 3: Check if the threads in our forums have the [Outdated] tag in which case ignore them.
Step 4: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=560652

It has good info, the only change I would reccomend is a slight tweak to the skill tree: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800Mc0zZrffordokfbsZs.3
This will net you more alacrity in the long run (same as in Vanilla) As far as rotation and stat priorities go, use the thread.

You can also switch some of the PvP talents according to your preference, I picked them from an Ops perspective but for instance Reflexive Shields/Decoy have different uses in different situations. Kephess and The Terror come to mind as being perfect for a well timed Decoy, as does Sunder should he fixate on you.

Another good uide is here but it's for Merc: http://suckafish.enjin.com/forum/m/2482819/viewthread/6509878-mercenary-arsenal-20-pve. Commandos are very potent as you can see here http://www.torparse.com/a/216444/. For our purposes aim at 2500-2700 on the dummy when fully geared, I would say 2300+ if in 69s.

Alacrity rating - 0
Critical rating - 0
Accuracy - get 100%, you will get something like 99.5% with the enhancements which is sufficient
Surge - whatever tertiary is left
Power + Aim only as you primary and secondary (can get Cunning datacrons though, as well as Endurance but do not stat for it)

Augments - use Aim over Power due to your talents, they will net you more DPS, Pinkie should be able to make some for you if you get the mats. Do not use any other augments other than MS or Power (unless a tank) as it is a waste of rating, best to remod your gear with the correct enhancements.

Thanks for the response.

My skill tree is identical to the one you posted except for one more point in Weapons Calibraitons.

I've go the post you linked to the swtor community thread bookmarked.

So I don't need to mod for alacrity, got that. I'm confused though on the crit 0. Where should I look for that?

Maybe this ss helps?

For BiS gear:

https://2img.net/h/oi43.tinypic.com/3h7gl.jpg

Only get unlettered Agile Mods and Adept/Initiative Enhacements

The reason why 1/2 in Weapon Calibrations and 1/2 in First Responder is better over 2/2 in WC is because you will pretty much be running the proc all the time, even with Hammer Shots so you will have 4% ala, where as with 2 in WC you will only have 2%. This has been tested extensively.

the Suckafish guide is probably the best I've seen so far if you can get over Imp terminology and heat/vs ammo.

Also you don't have to worry about the 27 armourings, that is pure min/maxing.

Awesome, this helps, picture becoming clearer!

Alright, so, after many changes in mods / enhancements (small fortune), here's where I am unbuffed:


Where previously I had:

Aim 2174
Accuracy 151
Surge 439
Power 395
Crit 637
Alacrity 144


I now have:

Aim 2216
Accuracy 440
Surge 288
Power 847
Crit 235
Alacrity 0



I also re-specced putting the one point in First Responder as suggested.

All augments are Aim, can't dump any more crit until new implant / earpiece.

So by my eyes, I'm about as close as I can get, Head and Chest 72's, all else 69's, only one piece of Arkanian so no set bonus.

I can only get about 1850 sustained DPS on the test dummy. Obviously this won't transfer to OPS due to target switching / uptime.

I'm missing something in my rotation although I'm following what everyone is suggesting, or I'm missing some kind of proc or something.

What I'm using is:

Grav Round, Full Auto, High Impact Bolt, Demolition Round, then just GR until CoF procs, then FA and HIB and DR when available. Throwing in Electro Net and Sticky Grenade for shits and giggles when they're basically free....

I'm missing something, have to be, DPS should be higher.

Any suggestions?

I, too, am experimenting with Commando DPS as of late, and although our rotations are largely the same, I would recommend some slight changes - credit to Shin for this advice.

First, open with Full Auto. Doing so will mean that the FA proc with Grav Round will, in the long-run, cause more damage than if you had just started with GR. Firing FA even without the proc halfway-through the fight will give the same result before another bout of GR-spamming; you never know when CoF will decide to not show its face during a fight.
Second, Sticky Grenade shouldn't really be used for single-target fights. It's a useful ability when there is more than one target packed close together, but otherwise it should just be left on the side as an extra.
Third, as silly as this may sound given the last point, Mortar Volley is useful as a tool for extra damage, given that each blast has its own different damage value. If you don't want to use all your ammo (see below), this ability would be the one with which to use Reserve Powercell.

Other than that, nothing is wrong with your rotation.

Additionally, you might want to try for a "burn" phase whenever you can (provided that Recharge Cells is available). This will mean that in a very short space of time, you will cause immense damage. Here, Mortar Volley is really useful, given its high cost, as is spamming GR, HiB, DR and FA as much as you possibly can.

I would also recommend, if you haven't already (can't see any indication in this topic that you have these), getting Power/Aim Stims and Adrenals - I'm sure our Biochems would be more than happy to make some for you if you're in need. Using, or even so much as having, both of these in a fight, alongside the clickable Power relic, will help you achieve more damage over a short duration (min: 15-seconds, max: 30-seconds) which will definitely help in the long run.

Sadly unavoidable without sounding like a complete arrogant douchebag, but here I must compare to confirm the validity of Shin's advice. I'm nowhere near as well-geared as you (ranging from full 66, 66w/ some 69s, and a full 72), with 1637 max damage on paper (I haven't got all stats written down like you), fully-buffed, yet I'm averaging high 1.95-2k DPS.

Another hint that I was given (by both Shin and Twi-yunfat) was to try to mingle the two 2-set-boni of the Campaign/Dread Guard and Arkanian/Underworld sets, to give a 30% crit increase to GR. Of course, the new 4-set-bonus of the Arkanian/Underworld set is nothing to be sniffed at, either, but it all depends if you are happy to sacrifice survivability and armouring stats, which is an understandable concern.

I've yet to enact upon this piece of advice in particular, so I cannot report on its success unlike I am the previous piece.

Skarkdahn wrote:

Another hint that I was given (by both Shin and Twi-yunfat) was to try to mingle the two 2-set-boni of the Campaign/Dread Guard and Arkanian/Underworld sets, to give a 30% crit increase to GR. Of course, the new 4-set-bonus of the Arkanian/Underworld set is nothing to be sniffed at, either, but it all depends if you are happy to sacrifice survivability and armouring stats, which is an understandable concern.

I've yet to enact upon this piece of advice in particular, so I cannot report on its success unlike I am the previous piece.

What i said was to get the 2 set bonus from the Campaign armoring,or even better Dread Guard if you can. The set bonus will give you better dps even with the loss of aim with going from Armoring 69 to Armoring 61/63. I didn't say anything about stacking 2 set bonuses as i don't know if it works.

Shinjiro wrote:

Skarkdahn wrote:

Another hint that I was given (by both Shin and Twi-yunfat) was to try to mingle the two 2-set-boni of the Campaign/Dread Guard and Arkanian/Underworld sets, to give a 30% crit increase to GR. Of course, the new 4-set-bonus of the Arkanian/Underworld set is nothing to be sniffed at, either, but it all depends if you are happy to sacrifice survivability and armouring stats, which is an understandable concern.

I've yet to enact upon this piece of advice in particular, so I cannot report on its success unlike I am the previous piece.

What i said was to get the 2 set bonus from the Campaign armoring,or even better Dread Guard if you can. The set bonus will give you better dps even with the loss of aim with going from Armoring 69 to Armoring 61/63. I didn't say anything about stacking 2 set bonuses as i don't know if it works.

And again my generalising gets the better of me.

Clarification on my part: The latter piece of evidence came from Twi-yun alone; I gave no direct indication of this, so I should really have specified that you both gave separate pieces of advice on this matter, shouldn't I?

Hey Sparowe, 1850 is really low to be parsing on an Ops dummy. 2300 DPS is the region you should be in for hard mode content. Here is what I know others are parsing from the dummies:

Goopy: 3.1k (Saboteur), 2.65k (Hybrid), 2.5k (Sharpshooter)
Scoot: Similar ranges as Goopy
Twi-yun: 2.2k (from last I heard)
Slugfest: ~2.2-2.3k (from what I can tell from raid parse)
Partridge: ~2.3k-2.5k (from what I can tell from raid parse)

As you said, these same numbers won't transfer into most encounters, but they are great benchmarks for one's overall effectiveness. For example, the parse from Styrak last night showed Goopy, Scoot, and Partridge all reaching around 2.2-2.3k DPS. While they all can hit harder, the target swapping and pauses forces a DPS drop.

I don't know Commando too well as I have only a level 22, but I can comment on your stats as the ideal stats are similar for most DPS classes.

First, keep dropping crit, you'll see a big improvement. Your accuracy is near what is considered BiS (450), make sure that you have the passive accuracy boost in your tree and the legacy accuracy boost you get from have a ranged tank (like M1) at max affection.

Also, try to use the mod types that have no letter after the number (e.g. use Advanced Keen Mod 31 and not Advanced Keen Mod 31A). These are the secondary stat heavy ones and give you the best itemization. Same rule applies for enhancements (endurance is lower than the other stats).

Once you get your set bonus you'll start noticing a significant DPS increase, and what augments are you wearing exactly? Your Aim seems low given you're in mostly 72s and 69s. Goopy is in similar gear and is well over 3000 cunning.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond and pass along some wisdom.

I have no lettered mods or enhancements. Using all advanced reflex augments 28, +32 aim, +20 endurance.

The 1850 dps was with no buffs at all, no stims. I am using nano-infused reflex stim for ops.

Going to concentrate on getting some tier gear for set bonuses and try opening w/ FA instead of GR. I think maybe I've been holding off on FA at times while waiting for CoF to proc.

Never ran ops other than a couple of farm runs before 2.0 so I missed out on tier gear.

Thanks again for all the help, I'll probably continue to pick the collective brain, I'm not used to sucking hind tit, don't like the flavor, too close to the ass....

Sparowe wrote:

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond and pass along some wisdom.

I have no lettered mods or enhancements. Using all advanced reflex augments 28, +32 aim, +20 endurance.

The 1850 dps was with no buffs at all, no stims. I am using nano-infused reflex stim for ops.

Going to concentrate on getting some tier gear for set bonuses and try opening w/ FA instead of GR. I think maybe I've been holding off on FA at times while waiting for CoF to proc.

Never ran ops other than a couple of farm runs before 2.0 so I missed out on tier gear.

Thanks again for all the help, I'll probably continue to pick the collective brain, I'm not used to sucking hind tit, don't like the flavor, too close to the ass....

Do not wait for the proc, as the proc will finish the cd of Full Auto. If you wait for it you are wasting it. Essentially you can Full Auto as soon as it is off cd be it due to proc or natural cd, if you are lucky you can get FA-GR-FA(CoF) combos.

To maximise your chances of getting this proc bear in mind that it has 6s internal cd (4GCDs) so you may want to tailor your rotation to make sure that you use a GR every 4th GCD after CoF.

What I mean is that provided other attacks are on cd;

FA(CoF)-GR-HS-GR(chance of proc) is better than FA(CoF)-GR-GR-HS(no chance of proc). Obviously DR and HiB must be weaved into the rotation but they are both on predictable cds. I am not sure if Ala reduces the internal cd but due to the duration of FA it hopefully will not be an issue.

Assault works similarly in relation to HiB procs.

And yes do use EN but not sticky. You can also use Plasma Grenade but only with Reserve Powercell, I have seen 2.5k+ parses both with and without. Mortar Volley is also to be used but I am not sure of it's priority.

I am not sure what is up with your Aim but it does lead to the low parsin, 2.2k is not even Vanilla BiS, in 69s it should be at least 2.4k. If you can grab at least the fleet datacron, Order 65 does it at least once a month so you can whisper and ask. Other than that make sure you have Reflext arm/barrels not commando and unlettered mods, dunno what else could be wrong.

Make sure you have all the class buffs (just ask on fleet if you do not have your own) and at least the vendor stim before doing any parses and some of the lesser (Hyper-battle and Exotech) stims are also spare in our bank or cheap on GTN so pick those if you can. Power Adrenals will also help you pump up your damage but are not necessary.

Derpy wrote:

To maximise your chances of getting this proc bear in mind that it has 6s internal cd (4GCDs) so you may want to tailor your rotation to make sure that you use a GR every 4th GCD after CoF.

Pretty much this. My DPS went up a lot once I realised how important it is to use Full Auto as much as possible.

What I mean is that provided other attacks are on cd;

FA(CoF)-GR-HS-GR(chance of proc) is better than FA(CoF)-GR-GR-HS(no chance of proc). Obviously DR and HiB must be weaved into the rotation but they are both on predictable cds. I am not sure if Ala reduces the internal cd but due to the duration of FA it hopefully will not be an issue.

Actually since you never want to sit there doing nothing looking at the proc you'll usually have an ability queued in between your CoF proc and using the Full Auto.

So:
GR(CoF) - Something - Full Auto - Something - GR
....0..............1.5..............4.5............6.0..........6+ seconds since your proc at end of cast


And yes do use EN but not sticky. You can also use Plasma Grenade but only with Reserve Powercell, I have seen 2.5k+ parses both with and without. Mortar Volley is also to be used but I am not sure of it's priority.

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

crazyBE wrote:

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

HiB is not free anymore (may be with old armourings/TCR shells but I don't think Sparowe has those) BiS is now stacking 2 piece for 30% crit chance of GR by taking 2 DG armourins in boots and gloves and ammo works on 100% now (but it is easy to tell from the graphic).

Alright, more changes, dumped all crit, went w/ some lower rated implants and earpiece to dump crit and gain power. Also, previous aim was bad math, was just looking at base stats from equipment, not actual, stats are now:

Aim 2900
Accuracy 610 or 101.7%
Surge 164
Power 1221
Crit 0
Alacrity 0

Hit the test dummy buffed after FP w/ minor reflex stim, twice got right around 2300.

Need to get the power relic, should have tomorrow, and probably back off some accuracy for surge at this point.

Anyway, thanks again for al the help, feeling much better about this....

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

HiB is not free anymore (may be with old armourings/TCR shells but I don't think Sparowe has those) BiS is now stacking 2 piece for 30% crit chance of GR by taking 2 DG armourins in boots and gloves and ammo works on 100% now (but it is easy to tell from the graphic).

Yeah I know about the 100 ammo but I have no idea of those costs so I used the 12 ammo costs =)
Kinda disapointing that HiB is no longer free. Makes me happy I ditched mando for gunslinger.

crazyBE wrote:

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

HiB is not free anymore (may be with old armourings/TCR shells but I don't think Sparowe has those) BiS is now stacking 2 piece for 30% crit chance of GR by taking 2 DG armourins in boots and gloves and ammo works on 100% now (but it is easy to tell from the graphic).

Yeah I know about the 100 ammo but I have no idea of those costs so I used the 12 ammo costs =)
Kinda disapointing that HiB is no longer free. Makes me happy I ditched mando for gunslinger.

5 tick Flyby = Trollface

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

HiB is not free anymore (may be with old armourings/TCR shells but I don't think Sparowe has those) BiS is now stacking 2 piece for 30% crit chance of GR by taking 2 DG armourins in boots and gloves and ammo works on 100% now (but it is easy to tell from the graphic).

Yeah I know about the 100 ammo but I have no idea of those costs so I used the 12 ammo costs =)
Kinda disapointing that HiB is no longer free. Makes me happy I ditched mando for gunslinger.

5 tick Flyby = Trollface

And the best part about that is that I have 63 armorings with the old PvP bonus thanks to battlemaster shells

crazyBE wrote:

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Derpy wrote:

crazyBE wrote:

Just like everything else in Gunnery rotation, MV depends on your energy:
HIB = free instant
DR = 2ammo instant
MV = 3ammo cast > 1.5s

only use HIB if your energy is <10
only use DR if your energy is >9 or if you know you'll get the passive regen before the natural one
only use MV if your energy is >10

HiB is not free anymore (may be with old armourings/TCR shells but I don't think Sparowe has those) BiS is now stacking 2 piece for 30% crit chance of GR by taking 2 DG armourins in boots and gloves and ammo works on 100% now (but it is easy to tell from the graphic).

Yeah I know about the 100 ammo but I have no idea of those costs so I used the 12 ammo costs =)
Kinda disapointing that HiB is no longer free. Makes me happy I ditched mando for gunslinger.

5 tick Flyby = Trollface

And the best part about that is that I have 63 armorings with the old PvP bonus thanks to battlemaster shells

Lucky, I'm stuck with 61's (I think...).

Parsed combat log from TFB farm run last night, in fights averaging 1 minute or longer, was averaging between 2,300 & 2,500 dps last night. Getting more comfortable w/ new rotation & priorities, still need to improve on target switching and up time. Looking forward to a 2 piece bonus. Getting there.....

Sparowe wrote:

Parsed combat log from TFB farm run last night, in fights averaging 1 minute or longer, was averaging between 2,300 & 2,500 dps last night. Getting more comfortable w/ new rotation & priorities, still need to improve on target switching and up time. Looking forward to a 2 piece bonus. Getting there.....

BTW I could tell, a lot of aggro rips.

It might also be worth decreasing the queue-ability time to 1 second as opposed to 0.5 seconds, as that will give you more time to comfortably set up your next attack and thus keep a steady run of attacks going one-after-another. It will help give you higher average damage figures within a set time, as there would thus be more attacks hitting with fewer delays than before.

The downside of this is that doing so (spamming GR in particular) will eat your ammo very, very quickly.