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Derpy
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PostSubject: Scrap Metal   Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:02 pm

Well since we do not actually have a DPS Scoundrel (and there is a good reason for that) other than Jtari every now and then, I though I might make one. I like playing classes that are dismissed as being too weak or too difficult, at least provides some challenge. It is why I predominantly PvP heal as a Sage.

This is my spec, it is a standard Hit and Run PvP toon, only going to do story quests and level through PvP and see if I want to PvE with it once it is 50.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:05 pm

Scrapper is fun for PvP, but when you're doing Story you may want to run Dirty Fighting as Scrapper can become frustrating. If you're five levels over your story quest then nevermind on the respecing. Haha.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:43 am

Fluttershy wrote:
Scrapper is fun for PvP, but when you're doing Story you may want to run Dirty Fighting as Scrapper can become frustrating. If you're five levels over your story quest then nevermind on the respecing. Haha.

For PvE you also want the buffs to Vital Shot instead of Dirty Kick but I guess you've prob seen that already
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:51 am

I have just changed from Concealment/Scrapper to Lethality/DF on my Operative . It made me realize how dumb i was to use Concealment to level till lv 45 Suspect. No more standing behind to Back stab or stealth to do Hidden Strike. Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:57 am

crazyBE wrote:
Fluttershy wrote:
Scrapper is fun for PvP, but when you're doing Story you may want to run Dirty Fighting as Scrapper can become frustrating. If you're five levels over your story quest then nevermind on the respecing. Haha.

For PvE you also want the buffs to Vital Shot instead of Dirty Kick but I guess you've prob seen that already
I always figured that was a given in PvP to PvE. Derped!

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:21 am

Story mission bosses do not have boss immunity =P.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:17 pm

Derpy wrote:
Story mission bosses do not have boss immunity =P.
No but they can have a lot of health and possess uninterruptable attacks. Plus Vital Shot does more damage and can make some missions, like the last story quest for Smuggler, a lot easier.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:09 pm

Fluttershy wrote:
Derpy wrote:
Story mission bosses do not have boss immunity =P.
No but they can have a lot of health and possess uninterruptable attacks. Plus Vital Shot does more damage and can make some missions, like the last story quest for Smuggler, a lot easier.

Spam emergency medpack + Vital shot and run around pillar. True story.
In my defense i was lvl 46
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:46 am

Great time for the free respecs =D

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:52 am

I thought scrapper was extremely fun leveling. I also wasn't using a tank companion. Just tactical use of dirty kick and flashbang. Also flechette round just looks badass.

That is clearly just me though.

It stopped being fun when shoot first no longer floored enemies, easily the best part about scrapper...
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:30 am

Amorphic wrote:
I thought scrapper was extremely fun leveling. I also wasn't using a tank companion. Just tactical use of dirty kick and flashbang. Also flechette round just looks badass.

That is clearly just me though.

It stopped being fun when shoot first no longer floored enemies, easily the best part about scrapper...

Shadow tank's spinning kick used out of stealth feels a lot more satisfying.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:01 am

Found out what the 15% speed increase actually does. It is an increase to in combat speed (115%) but in stealth/out of combat it has no effect as it is overridden by sprint. While very nice for PvP not all that great for PvE, particularly endgame, if I need increased stealth to sap something I will just use Sneak.

As such after 1.5 (which will probably hit before I get to 50) my PvE spec will be this.

Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:11 am

Derpy wrote:


Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

It is.

the 25% chance is equal to an extra tick if there are 4 or more and the extra 3 seconds is equal to an extra tick.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:36 pm

Derpy wrote:
Found out what the 15% speed increase actually does. It is an increase to in combat speed (115%) but in stealth/out of combat it has no effect as it is overridden by sprint. While very nice for PvP not all that great for PvE, particularly endgame, if I need increased stealth to sap something I will just use Sneak.

As such after 1.5 (which will probably hit before I get to 50) my PvE spec will be this.

Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

The 3 seconds extra duration is more energy efficient but a decrease in DPS.
It does NOT add an extra tick worth of damage but spreads it out over a longer duration.

So if before you had 5 ticks of 120 damage,
you will then have 6 ticks of 100 damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:33 pm

crazyBE wrote:
Derpy wrote:
Found out what the 15% speed increase actually does. It is an increase to in combat speed (115%) but in stealth/out of combat it has no effect as it is overridden by sprint. While very nice for PvP not all that great for PvE, particularly endgame, if I need increased stealth to sap something I will just use Sneak.

As such after 1.5 (which will probably hit before I get to 50) my PvE spec will be this.

Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

The 3 seconds extra duration is more energy efficient but a decrease in DPS.
It does NOT add an extra tick worth of damage but spreads it out over a longer duration.

So if before you had 5 ticks of 120 damage,
you will then have 6 ticks of 100 damage.

nope.

With the talent it ticks for 449*6
Without the talent it ticks for 449*5
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:26 pm

Amorphic wrote:
crazyBE wrote:
Derpy wrote:
Found out what the 15% speed increase actually does. It is an increase to in combat speed (115%) but in stealth/out of combat it has no effect as it is overridden by sprint. While very nice for PvP not all that great for PvE, particularly endgame, if I need increased stealth to sap something I will just use Sneak.

As such after 1.5 (which will probably hit before I get to 50) my PvE spec will be this.

Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

The 3 seconds extra duration is more energy efficient but a decrease in DPS.
It does NOT add an extra tick worth of damage but spreads it out over a longer duration.

So if before you had 5 ticks of 120 damage,
you will then have 6 ticks of 100 damage.

nope.

With the talent it ticks for 449*6
Without the talent it ticks for 449*5

They must've changed that then. At launch it used to be how I said
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:46 pm

crazyBE wrote:
Amorphic wrote:
crazyBE wrote:
Derpy wrote:
Found out what the 15% speed increase actually does. It is an increase to in combat speed (115%) but in stealth/out of combat it has no effect as it is overridden by sprint. While very nice for PvP not all that great for PvE, particularly endgame, if I need increased stealth to sap something I will just use Sneak.

As such after 1.5 (which will probably hit before I get to 50) my PvE spec will be this.

Not actually sure if Mortal Wound is better than Open Wound.

The 3 seconds extra duration is more energy efficient but a decrease in DPS.
It does NOT add an extra tick worth of damage but spreads it out over a longer duration.

So if before you had 5 ticks of 120 damage,
you will then have 6 ticks of 100 damage.

nope.

With the talent it ticks for 449*6
Without the talent it ticks for 449*5

They must've changed that then. At launch it used to be how I said
1.3 had a lot of changes to the Gunslinger/Sniper/Ranged portion of the Smuggler/Agent, so I'm sure it probably changed in that patch. I remember this because at the time I was still specc'd Sharpshooting and wasn't a huge fan of the tree changes for that spec.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:34 am

People are bad.
In healer gear.
http://www.torparse.com/a/57196


Last edited by Amorphic on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:40 pm

That is funny, I know people on the ToR forums were discussing how much DPS Scoundrel does and some only just broke 1700.

Also what is the gear difference? Trade alacrity for surge?

I know some people dismiss Scrappers because they measure shit on MoX, overlooking the point that they use dissapperaing act to increase their DPS, which Mox just interprets as new fight.

Also I so far haven't had problem running 2 levels under Story, sometimes comp dies but that's because I forget to use Unity or Heroic Moment.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:19 pm

Derpy wrote:
That is funny, I know people on the ToR forums were discussing how much DPS Scoundrel does and some only just broke 1700.

Also what is the gear difference? Trade alacrity for surge?

I know some people dismiss Scrappers because they measure shit on MoX, overlooking the point that they use dissapperaing act to increase their DPS, which Mox just interprets as new fight.

Also I so far haven't had problem running 2 levels under Story, sometimes comp dies but that's because I forget to use Unity or Heroic Moment.

I used combat stealth 4 times in that parse.

I have about 150 alacrity.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:57 pm

Amorphic wrote:
People are bad.
In healer gear.
http://www.torparse.com/a/57196

For comparison
http://www.torparse.com/a/57222
Hah, that's great. It won't stop people from complaining about a Scoundrel DPS in the group, but this is just another argument to show that Scoundrel DPS is viable for end-game. People just need to, "learn to play." Derped!

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Fluttershy wrote:
Amorphic wrote:
People are bad.
In healer gear.
http://www.torparse.com/a/57196

For comparison
http://www.torparse.com/a/57222
Hah, that's great. It won't stop people from complaining about a Scoundrel DPS in the group, but this is just another argument to show that Scoundrel DPS is viable for end-game. People just need to, "learn to play." Derped!

A lot of players have stated Scoundrel DPS to be viable.
However there are very few who can actually play them well enough to be viable.
And even when played at their best they are still at the bottom of DPS according to those combat simulation program thingies.

That is why players are hesitant to take scoundrel DPS.
However seeing the parse from Jtari he could most likely break the 1900 mark with the armor debuff and DPS gear making me think those combat simulations are just plain wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:34 pm

crazyBE wrote:
Fluttershy wrote:
Amorphic wrote:
People are bad.
In healer gear.
http://www.torparse.com/a/57196

For comparison
http://www.torparse.com/a/57222
Hah, that's great. It won't stop people from complaining about a Scoundrel DPS in the group, but this is just another argument to show that Scoundrel DPS is viable for end-game. People just need to, "learn to play." Derped!

A lot of players have stated Scoundrel DPS to be viable.
However there are very few who can actually play them well enough to be viable.
And even when played at their best they are still at the bottom of DPS according to those combat simulation program thingies.

That is why players are hesitant to take scoundrel DPS.
However seeing the parse from Jtari he could most likely break the 1900 mark with the armor debuff and DPS gear making me think those combat simulations are just plain wrong.
After playing an Operative, I knew Scoundrel/Operative DPS was perfectly viable but I just didn't know how much because people were constantly tossing the sims in my face. These are the same sims that claim Sages to be terrible DPS while I see some that are wrecking balls. My issues with Scoundrel DPS is that I prefer the Dirty Fighting tree over Scrapper but there isn't anything in the DF tree to proc Upper Hand outside of melee range. In other words, the tree needs a bit of work.

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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:37 pm

That was in scrapper and apparently dirty fighting does higher dps. I haven't been able to get higher than about 1600 in it though.

Scoundrel rotation just seems totally ambiguous to me. You just have a bunch of abilities that don't really fit together that well. It took me a while to figure out what abilities are totally worthless to use.
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PostSubject: Re: Scrap Metal   Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:48 pm

Amorphic wrote:
That was in scrapper and apparently dirty fighting does higher dps. I haven't been able to get higher than about 1600 in it though.

Scoundrel rotation just seems totally ambiguous to me. You just have a bunch of abilities that don't really fit together that well. It took me a while to figure out what abilities are totally worthless to use.
Scoundrel DF is a bit trickier than Gunslinger as Scoundrel doesn't have as many base damage increases as Gunslinger. For example, the Gunslinger has Independent Anarchy and Bombastic which both increase the base damage of Shrap Bomb and Reopen Wounds which increases Wounding Shots crit chance. A lot of the raw damage was dropped in the Scoundrel DF tree for resource management. This was most likely to balance to the chance to go nuts with Wounding Shots, but since getting Upper Hands is so difficult in DF, matching a Slinger's damage output is very difficult, if not impossible, with the current tree iteration.

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