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PostSubject: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:13 am

All conclusions are based on latest data and analyses and are subject to change. This is for PvE only, but some of the linked threads have PvP information as well

Updated for 2.5

Bugs

Unfortunately, I still need to preface this discussion with a caveat when it comes to bugs.

Double proccing (i.e. procs from both heals and damage inside the intended 20s window)

Focused Retribution - yes for Dread Forged
Serendipitous Assault - yes for Kell Dragon, no for other.
As a result, if you are keeping up a DoT on an enemy as you heal a KD SA relic is better than DF SA relic. This also applies to DPS with self heals.

Healing:

This has had plenty of testing done and is fairly settled and due to the nature of the role allows for a choice.

Slot 1: Focused Retribution

Slot 2:
Option 1: Serendipitous Assault

Option 2: Boundless Ages (Power Click) - This is mathematically a worse choice but can still be used if you want the on demand burst and are willing to sacrifice your throughput for it.

Data

Damage:

Classes with passive healing:

1st: Kell Dragon Relic Of Serendipitous Assault (Power Proc) - the 'bug' where it has 2 separate procs from heals and damage does not apply to higher tiers
2nd: Dread Forged Relic Of Focused Retribution (MS Proc)
3rd: Dread Forged Relic Of Boundless Ages (Power Click)

Classes without passive healing:

1st: Dread Forged Relic Of Serendipitous Assault (Power Proc)
2nd: Dread Forged Relic Of Focused Retribution (MS Proc)
3rd: Dread Forged Relic Of Boundless Ages (Power Click)

Data

Tanking:

Slot 1: Dread Forged Relic Of Reactive Warding (Bubble Proc)
Slot 2: Dread Forged Relic Of Fortunate Redoubt (Def Proc)

Data

If you had acquired a Dread Guard Relic pre 2.0 DO NOT replace it with Arkanian as it is a downgrade. Underworld+ is an upgrade. Dread guard relics obtained post 2.0 can be replaced with Arkanian.

And as always remember that any clicky relic is only ever better if actually used. If you find yourself not using it or often missing its cooldown use proc relics instead. It may not be BiS but it will be better for your playstyle.

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Last edited by Derpy on Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:20 pm; edited 14 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:00 am

So regarding the power relics compared with eachother, I did my own math and wow, the difference is pretty astounding with the addition of the Underworld Seredipitous Assault Relic. The USA gets a whopping 197 p/sec when procced at every opportunity. That is a pretty substantial upgrade over my 120 p/sec EWH relic. I want it even more now. Je magnific!

Regarding the UBA, I will take the 18.25 loss in power to not have to click the damn relic every two minutes. I am terrible with that on my Guardian, and I can't imagine trying with my healer....

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:06 pm

Thanks for the update! I think I'm going to take the Power buff over the Proc as the Power buff has a lot more utility to offer since it can be controlled. Also, I switch between multiple specs so it's probably more flexible. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Fluttershy wrote:
Thanks for the update! I think I'm going to take the Power buff over the Proc as the Power buff has a lot more utility to offer since it can be controlled. Also, I switch between multiple specs so it's probably more flexible. Very Happy

In that case Power proc + Power click may be best. If you can be bothered grab either, parse with it for a while trade it back in within 2 hours and parse with another one and see if there is a significant difference. Cca 6min parses should be fine maybe 8m to account for some of the longer fights in S&V.

More info On Power Proc:

Average power boost = 550*Sum(n=1 to 20){6/(20+(n-1)/A)*(0.7^(n-1)-0.7^n)} +32
The average power gained by the Underworld Relic of Serendipitous Assault is the following for the given number of attack or heal ticks per second:
0.3 ticks/sec: 161
0.5 ticks/sec: 171
1 tick/sec: 182
5 ticks/sec: 193
infinite ticks/sec (upper limit on power gain): 197

Basically, even if you're a Sage spamming un-specced Deliverance with no alacrity (3 second cast), you'll still get more average power with the URSA than with either the Underworld Relic of Boundless Ages (425*0.25+32 = 138 power) or the EWH BA (120). The Serendipitous Assault is neither constant nor controllable, which you may want to take into account, but in raw power over time it is superior.

In comparing the power proc to damage proc it is important to see just how much damage you get from the 'static' power increase. It is particularly helpful if a rotation is fairly malleable and high hitting attacks are used when the proc takes place (buff is visible). Power increases your bonus damage by .23 per point. The only way to tell how much the damage proc does is parsing, particularly in the case of K/E relics.

The truth is that nobody has a definite answer.

Also currently the combination of Partisan and Conqueror Serendipitous Assault is best, no idea if it will be fixed.

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Last edited by Derpy on Thu May 16, 2013 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Tue May 07, 2013 3:13 am

Apparently I misunderstood (or rather Dipstick changed it).

Update

VG

- BiS is EWH shd and def proc. If you do not have EWH take Shd use and def proc

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu May 16, 2013 1:11 pm

According to some new math (at least for Watchman sentinels) the two BiS relics are the PvP Partisan Serendipitous Assault and the Conqueror Serendipitous Assault as both apply a different buff and are able to proc at the same time. See the following post for more details:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1166-post-25774.html#pid25774

Here are the associated costs of each of the relics in question:

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/19n65b/20_bis_relics/
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm

Slugfest wrote:
According to some new math (at least for Watchman sentinels) the two BiS relics are the PvP Partisan Serendipitous Assault and the Conqueror Serendipitous Assault as both apply a different buff and are able to proc at the same time. See the following post for more details:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1166-post-25774.html#pid25774

Here are the associated costs of each of the relics in question:

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/19n65b/20_bis_relics/

Those are actually BiS for everyone as noted in the OP. But as it is an 'exploit' I did not want to include them. Since they are cheap may a well take them for the time being.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu May 16, 2013 1:38 pm

Derpy wrote:
Slugfest wrote:
According to some new math (at least for Watchman sentinels) the two BiS relics are the PvP Partisan Serendipitous Assault and the Conqueror Serendipitous Assault as both apply a different buff and are able to proc at the same time. See the following post for more details:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1166-post-25774.html#pid25774

Here are the associated costs of each of the relics in question:

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/19n65b/20_bis_relics/

Those are actually BiS for everyone as noted in the OP. But as it is an 'exploit' I did not want to include them. Since they are cheap may a well take them for the time being.

Ah soz, didn't see the first line of the post, my bad. Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu May 16, 2013 1:39 pm

Slugfest wrote:
Derpy wrote:
Slugfest wrote:
According to some new math (at least for Watchman sentinels) the two BiS relics are the PvP Partisan Serendipitous Assault and the Conqueror Serendipitous Assault as both apply a different buff and are able to proc at the same time. See the following post for more details:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1166-post-25774.html#pid25774

Here are the associated costs of each of the relics in question:

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/19n65b/20_bis_relics/

Those are actually BiS for everyone as noted in the OP. But as it is an 'exploit' I did not want to include them. Since they are cheap may a well take them for the time being.

Ah soz, didn't see the first line of the post, my bad. Embarassed

I made it a bit clearer for now.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon May 20, 2013 2:16 pm

Conq + Partisan double proccing has been confirmed as unintended and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

AmberGreen wrote:
Hi there folks,

Relics procs of the same type shouldn't stack, and we have this bug fixed for Game Update 2.1.1. Because the fix is still in testing, there's always the chance that it will be moved to a different patch. If so, I'll be sure to let you know!

~Amber

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6327975#edit6327975

I'll continue to utilize the double proccing until the fix goes live, but I'll start focusing on winning a few relics in preparation for the BiS change.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon May 20, 2013 2:43 pm

Fluttershy wrote:
Conq + Partisan double proccing has been confirmed as unintended and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

AmberGreen wrote:
Hi there folks,

Relics procs of the same type shouldn't stack, and we have this bug fixed for Game Update 2.1.1. Because the fix is still in testing, there's always the chance that it will be moved to a different patch. If so, I'll be sure to let you know!

~Amber

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6327975#edit6327975

I'll continue to utilize the double proccing until the fix goes live, but I'll start focusing on winning a few relics in preparation for the BiS change.

Updated OP to reflect this. As most people were using this still no definitive answer on which combination of pwr click, pwr proc and dmg proc is BiS.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon May 20, 2013 3:03 pm

Derpy wrote:
Fluttershy wrote:
Conq + Partisan double proccing has been confirmed as unintended and will be fixed in an upcoming patch.

AmberGreen wrote:
Hi there folks,

Relics procs of the same type shouldn't stack, and we have this bug fixed for Game Update 2.1.1. Because the fix is still in testing, there's always the chance that it will be moved to a different patch. If so, I'll be sure to let you know!

~Amber

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6327975#edit6327975

I'll continue to utilize the double proccing until the fix goes live, but I'll start focusing on winning a few relics in preparation for the BiS change.

Updated OP to reflect this. As most people were using this still no definitive answer on which combination of pwr click, pwr proc and dmg proc is BiS.
My guess, for DPS, would be Underworld Serendipitous and the Boundless Ages for some classes (specifically Sentinels and Gunslingers), Damage Proc + Boundless Ages for others. I'm making this judgement with the knowledge that healing and damage can both activate the Underworld Serendipitous, thus keeping a longer sustained uptime of 550 power. I'm saying Damage Proc + Power buff for other classes because it's possible the power proc can happen at poor times (e.g. before Kephess leaps in the air making it a wasted proc), and since it won't be proccing as often without self healing it may turn out damage proc is better in practice.

If I ever find myself with an abundance of relic, I'll make sure to investigate. Muffins!?!

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:36 am

I am finally able to bring you almost concrete data on relics and it only took until 2.4.3 (granted there were a lot of relic changes since 2.0)

The related threads with all the supporting data are linked in OP.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:54 pm

It seems that Kell Dragon also procs from heals and damage, as reported by some players, so this would be a step up to Underworld. Either way, I'll have to alter my spec to include 1 point in Cool Under Pressure.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:04 am

Worth noting that the Relics are being updated for 2.5:
http://dulfy.net/2013/11/17/swtor-relics-stats-adjusted-for-patch-2-5/

Seeing as BA isn't being touched, but the others are (Just look at FR and SA!), it looks as if the best DPS and Healing relics are now going to be FR and SA without question, especially if the bug where the proc refreshes for passive healing remains persistent.

Not quite sure what this change means for tanking just yet, because the pictures of the tanking relics show the stats to be the same as the current ones, although this could still change. We'll have to wait and see.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:12 pm

Skarkdahn wrote:
Worth noting that the Relics are being updated for 2.5:
http://dulfy.net/2013/11/17/swtor-relics-stats-adjusted-for-patch-2-5/

Seeing as BA isn't being touched, but the others are (Just look at FR and SA!), it looks as if the best DPS and Healing relics are now going to be FR and SA without question, especially if the bug where the proc refreshes for passive healing remains persistent.

Not quite sure what this change means for tanking just yet, because the pictures of the tanking relics show the stats to be the same as the current ones, although this could still change. We'll have to wait and see.
You are correct. SA+FR will be BiS healing/DPS with that change.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:56 pm

I put a recommendation in the OP to obtain MS proc over Crit Proc, even though it may not be BiS now, it will save you the trouble of obtaining a third relic after 2.5

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:54 pm

Derpy wrote:
I put a recommendation in the OP to obtain MS proc over Crit Proc, even though it may not be BiS now, it will save you the trouble of obtaining a third relic after 2.5
I'm just holding off on worrying about relics until 2.5 launches. For all we know, BW could change relics again at the last moment. They can't seem to get them right in their mind.

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:04 pm

It does seem strange that they should buff all the others yet leave Boundless Ages untouched. That instantly lowers its appeal and comparative strength, turning it into the DPS equivalent, and, for healers, another version, of Ephemeral Mending when in reality it's actually currently a pretty decent relic.

It is also worth noting that, for the DPS classes which have a % boost to their main stat, Focused Retribution is going to be better than SA, and even more so for Gunslingers, Balance Sages, and Sentinels (even if they don't have a % strength increase) if the rumoured bug where it procs for passive healers persists even with this change.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't at least lower the boost given by FR, even if the changes to BA stay the same.
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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:20 pm

Updated for 2.5

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PostSubject: Re: 2.0 BiS Relics PvE   Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:34 pm

Thanks for updating with the working bugs. Damnit, Goopy now needs a KD.

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