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Fluttershy
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:50 pm

That Noble Sacrifice clicking.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:00 pm

Fluttershy wrote:
That Noble Sacrifice clicking.

I lol'd.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:22 am



A little different from our strategy.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:41 am

The reason they are doing it where we fail is:

A: Their tanks actually hold threat 100% of the time.
B: They kill the warriors and trenchies way faster than we do. (They only use two DPS to finish of the trenchies FFS.... Huh, what? )

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:42 am

Lyra wrote:
The reason they are doing it where we fail is:

A: Their tanks actually hold threat 100% of the time.
B: They kill the warriors and trenchies way faster than we do. (They only use two DPS to finish of the trenchies FFS.... Huh, what? )

B:I think it would be better to send DPS to kill the other warrior like in the video. Any dead warriors are good warriors,the 2nd tank can take the 2nd group of trandoshan if he's free of the warrior. Plus,we actually have more time to kill the 1st group while the 2nd tanks take the 2nd group.

The only flaw that i can see in the video is what if the trenchcutters of the 3rd group don't go for the tank and instead hit the dps that are killing 3rd group's warriors.

Also i notice that when the 1st group comes out,the 1st tank uses aoe taunt, then the 2nd tank uses single taunt to take the other warrior away from the group.Then when the 2nd group comes out,the 2nd tank uses aoe taunt on them, when the 3rd group comes out,the 1st tank uses aoe taunt. This should help with holding threat.
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Derpy
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:25 am

Unless we actually have enough DPS to kill a whole group before the next spawns that strat is off limits.

The option of tank switching so AOE taunt is available for each group is viable but only if both Warriors are killed, at least for the first group.

I don't understand why we didn't have enough DPS though, considering how much trouble T&Z gives us simply because we are killing them too fast. Almost all the wipes were due to Pinkie being overwhelmed by trenchies and as such it was impossible to heal through (or even drop heals on any DPS). Our strategy works but we simply need to kill the adds faster, I tried throwing in some AOE damage as well but it simply does not work as I need to be healing. There were a few threat issues but not many, for instance we know it isn't needed to guard healers anymore. The warriors that went after Kaizu were left untagged.

And faster dying adds will actually make it easier to hold threat, both because there is less of them to tank and shields dying sooner means that the tank can get threat sooner.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:45 am

Lyra wrote:
The reason they are doing it where we fail is:

A: Their tanks actually hold threat 100% of the time.
B: They kill the warriors and trenchies way faster than we do. (They only use two DPS to finish of the trenchies FFS.... Huh, what? )
The reason their tanks hold threat is that they kill the first warrior within the duration of the taunt (6 seconds). For whatever reason our DPS can't do that. They can also kill the trenchcutters in less time than us despite using only 2 DPS to do it, one of which is a maurader. In addition, not only do they have no trouble using the HM strategy on the siege droids, but actually kill them even faster that way.

It would be really nice if we could actually get a decent fourth DPS for once.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:37 am

OMG guys I just realised why we are losing, I am healing Saturation Fire.

http://www.torparse.com/a/91978

Also all those overheals Very Happy

Also the walker's ranged attack lowers your threat, explains why he switches it, which is super annoying with bubble but all 4 hits are quite deadly.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:50 am

Does anyone know what the health of the walker is when it goes back up? We might want to save more cooldowns for the trandoshans if we can. When are we using inspirations? At very least I think Shy should save freighter flyby for the trenchcutters. That is what Dulfy's sniper did, and he was a Marksman.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:49 pm

Pinkie Pie wrote:
Does anyone know what the health of the walker is when it goes back up? We might want to save more cooldowns for the trandoshans if we can. When are we using inspirations? At very least I think Shy should save freighter flyby for the trenchcutters. That is what Dulfy's sniper did, and he was a Marksman.

The walker is at ~65-66% with inspiration. (DPS at that time: doom,me,cloud,goopy)

The dps in the video are 1 Marksman Sniper, 2 Carnage Marauders and 1 Arsenal Merc.
They actually didn't kill the 1st group that much faster than us, the sniper dropped an orbital strike, hit a bit then move to the 2nd group while the 1st tank and 1 Mara cleaned up the remaining trenchcutters. It took about 15 seconds for those 2 to clean up the 1 first group then move to 2nd group of trandoshan.(You can tell by looking at the 1st tank's health when then 2nd group comes out)

Our strat at the moment requires us to kill the 1st group as soon as the 2nd group arrives.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:48 pm

Derpy wrote:
OMG guys I just realised why we are losing, I am healing Saturation Fire.

http://www.torparse.com/a/91978

Also all those overheals Very Happy

Also the walker's ranged attack lowers your threat, explains why he switches it, which is super annoying with bubble but all 4 hits are quite deadly.

But you're a Seer. You should know in advance who its going to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:48 pm

Amorphic wrote:
Derpy wrote:
OMG guys I just realised why we are losing, I am healing Saturation Fire.

http://www.torparse.com/a/91978

Also all those overheals Very Happy

Also the walker's ranged attack lowers your threat, explains why he switches it, which is super annoying with bubble but all 4 hits are quite deadly.

But you're a Seer. You should know in advance who its going to hit.

I am a Seer with lag, means I see the present.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:58 am

So,will we use the video's stra for our next attempt at Kephess? or anyone sees any other problems with the strat?
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:27 pm

Shinjiro wrote:
So,will we use the video's stra for our next attempt at Kephess? or anyone sees any other problems with the strat?

We have gotten by far the best results doing it the retard tank's way.

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Derpy
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:59 pm

Retard tank strat is sound, DPS need to be faster.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:11 am

Amorphic wrote:
Shinjiro wrote:
So,will we use the video's stra for our next attempt at Kephess? or anyone sees any other problems with the strat?

We have gotten by far the best results doing it the retard tank's way.


I think we would have better results if we try the new strat , no harm in doing it if we still keep failing with the current strat in our next attempts.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:43 pm

If we get past Trandoshans here is what we can expect

The parsing tank had 53.11% DR, not sure if that is with the healer's armour buff.

Pre 60% phase

'DoT tank'

22:10:10.260 429s Mighty Leap 5923 kinetic No Warlord Kephess (this can be avoided)
22:10:13.224 432s Empowered Slash 16583 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:15.260 434s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:18.301 437s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:21.319 440s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:24.319 443s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:27.295 446s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess
22:10:30.332 449s Savage Wounding 6633 internal No Warlord Kephess

Active Tank

21:40:02.454 427s Arcing Slash 11487 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:40:04.023 429s Melee Attack 0 No Warlord Kephess
21:40:05.574 430s Melee Attack 7599 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:40:07.093 432s Melee Attack 3958 kinetic No Warlord Kephess

This rotation just repeats itself, all of it can be shielded/defended. There is also the damage from one bomber.


Post 60% phase

21:42:07.592 552s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:07.593 552s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:07.593 552s Melee Attack 1428 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:07.593 552s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:07.593 552s Melee Attack 1428 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:09.104 554s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:09.104 554s Melee Attack 0 No Warlord Kephess
21:42:09.104 554s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:09.105 554s Melee Attack 2742 kinetic No Warlord Kephess
21:42:09.105 554s Melee Attack 0 No Warlord Kephess

This is kind of a 'worst case scenario' with little shield/defence going off.

So ye, it hurts like fuck.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:42 am

Where Goopy's left hand is, there is a blind spot in the Saturation Fire. Healers have full field view, and RDPS can hit everything. Just stand there.


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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:15 pm

And what do you know, there is a start using that spot.



I really like this positioning

- Saturation Fire negated
- Cross healing available
- Ranged classes can hit both groups
- First group does not have to necessarily die by the time the second spawns as the second has to run all the way across the map.

The only thing is that the first two warriors should be kited into the spot in a kind of an arch (as seen in the vid) so the Trenchies and guard should still be switched so the trench tank guards the warrior tank.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:19 pm

Trenchies strat is down (provided Goopy doesn't pull threat), next hurdle Kephess. From the numbers posted earlier it is all about using cooldowns.

Pre-60%

This phase should be fine with Dmwolf only using Resilience and negating the bleed whenever he can but any other cooldowns should be saved for the next phase. Everyone needs to be careful with not getting hit by saturation fire, the healers cannot spare time healing anyone else other than the tanks (except a little to negate the bomber's rocket), I should be able to throw down a Salvation at the walker when he goes down but DPS have to find it themselves. I will also be dropping Salvation on Kephess so both tanks can benefit from it.

Post-60%

There should only be 5 cycles in total, any more and we are hitting Enrage. Each cycle goes on for about 15s. For a Vanguard the Damage is pretty manageable but Shadows get into issues. I would need both Pinkie's and Dmwolf's stats to work out how much but it can be safely assumed that Pinkie gets about 3600-3800 DPS. Last time he was pretty easy to heal. Shadow's incoming damage is all dependant on Kinetic Ward and as soon as it goes away, they hit unhealable territory of 5000+ DPS (cca 4300 with). With Transcendence up this number goes down to cca 3600 with Kinetic Ward and 4300 without. Due to the nature of Kephess' attacks Kinetic Ward will go down about half way through the cycle and a second one cannot really be used due to the cd. What can be done is that Dmwolf activates his KW around the time the third circle drops so he will be able to squeeze 1 more in.

Transcendence lasts 10s, I am not sure how long Derpius takes to get 30 centring, if it is not possible to keep up Transcendence the whole time, it needs to be up while Dmwolf is tanking.

If Goopy still has bubble it should also be used.

Damage/Accuracy debuffs must be kept up on Kephess (the numbers above include them), This is a by-product of tank's attacks so it is not an issue (pinkie will not have the acc debuff but some should still be left over from Dmwolf's turn, in fact Dmwolf should use slow time at the end of his cycle and Pinkie will have the benefit of it most of the time.

I don't know if Dmwolf is a biochem but I will craft some absorb adrenal (increase armour) for both tanks as well as healing adrenal's for myself.

Strategy

I will purposefully be leaving the better cd's for the later cycles to account for healers running low on resource.

1. Pinkie on Kephess, use Smoke Grenade, lasts long enough for one cycle
2. Dmwolf on Kephess, start with Kinetic Ward (used on 3rd circle), use KW when off cd and use relic (Transcendence priority)
3. Pinkie on Kephess, use relic
4. Dmwolf on Kephess, start with Kinetic ward (used on 3rd circle), use KW when off cd and ¬3s into the cycle use Deflection (Transcendence, Bubble, Adrenal priority)
5. Pinkie on Kephess, use Reactive Shield (Adrenal Priority)

I will leave it up to the Tanks when they use Battle Readiness and Adrenaline Rush, but probably the later the better.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:31 pm

UPDATE - Dmwolf's Mitigation

Dmwolf has kindly provided me with his stats and I was able to calculate how much DPS he will be taking from Kephess during his cycle in post-60 phase.

There are number of assumptions and disregards:

Disregards
-5% armour buff from Sage/Commando healers (not sure how much DR will go up)
-Any left over debuffs giiven to Kephess from the previous tank (these are too diffiuclt to quantify)
-The Duration of transcendace is only 10s, 2/3 of a cycle (I could include this in the calculation but I am too lazy)
-Any damage absorbed by Force Amrour as this can be though of as an addition to a Sage's HPS (cca 4500 every 20s = 225 HPS)
-The damage tanken whne Kephess knock's the tank back and casts Breath (this is a live/die mechanic with no damage after)

Assumptions
-All procs from Slow Time and Force Breach are up the whole time Dmwolf is tanking (there will be some DR debuff left over from Pinkie but they do not stack)
-The stats given to me include all tree and set bonus buffs and exclude procs

The DPS is the 'average' scenario taking into account the exact chances for Def/Shd. Due to RNG the actual values will vary on fight-to-fight basis.

Without Ward or Transcendace
5193 DPS = 2597 HPSPH (HPS per healer) - this is impossible to heal

With Ward but Without Transcendance
4285 DPS = 2143 HPSPH - unlikely to be healed through beyond burst

With Ward and Transcendance
3889 DPS = 1944 HPSPH - difficult but can be achieved

As for self-heals these are in the region of 150-200 HPS sustained and up to 400 HPS bursting, lowering the final amount needed to cca 1860-1880 HPSPH.

As a result I must reiterate that Ward is to be kept up for as long as possible by having it come off cd while placing circles (i.e. activate 3rd circle) allowing for 2 Wards per cycle on Kephess. Transcendace must be used as a priority when Dmwolf is tanking (if 2 Sents they can swicth). Even with Ward and Transcendace cooldowns/relic/adrenal will be the difference between wipe and clear. As an illustration a 61/63 Hybrid guardian will take 3660 DPS without Transcendance.

I can run the calculations for Pinkie if I get his numbers, due to higher DR and higher constant shield chance he should will take less damage regardless.

If anyone wants to do their own calculation:

-19500 pre-mitigation Kinetic Melee Damage per second from Kephess at 90% accuracy (add 10% to your defence chance)
-take away damage that is defended (taking into account any other acc debuffs/def buffs from abilities/talents)
-work out how much remaining damage is shielded and take away the absorbed proportion (taking into account any procs increasing your shield/absorb percentages)
-reduce the remained by your Kinetic Damage reduction (taking into account any armour/DR buffs and for Shadows+Vanguards also 5% Damage debuff given to Kephes)
-divide the result by two to see how muh each healer will have to put out.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:55 pm

Random question:

You make Dmwolf only tank twice.
You make him use a relic (+ Battle Readiness + Medpack) on the first one.
You make him use Deflection (this gives me 80% dodge which means Kephess will barely do anything) on the second one.


Why the hell are you calculating how much damage he takes without the relic or Deflection.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:30 pm

crazyBE wrote:
Random question:

You make Dmwolf only tank twice.
You make him use a relic (+ Battle Readiness + Medpack) on the first one.
You make him use Deflection (this gives me 80% dodge which means Kephess will barely do anything) on the second one.


Why the hell are you calculating how much damage he takes without the relic or Deflection.

Why not? The original numbers were a guess. Knowing how the fight works is beneficial (Pre 60 phase wasn't an issue last time but I have no idea if cds were used) in planning cooldowns for both healers and tanks as well as any raid wide defensive abilties the DPS have. I also kinda went with 'use a cooldown' because it is generally a good idea but didn't know if it really is needed.

Also if I didn't I would have no excuse not to do my legal drafting and fuck that.

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:55 am

if you are still having trouble, you can have dm field respec during the droid phase to http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601MIMokrZfhrokfbZb.2

its essentially a pure mitigation build where you get an exra 4% dr, 30% aoe reduction(i assume the cleave counts as aoe) and an extra cd which can be reset by cloaking. Its horrible at holding agro, so i wouldnt suggest it for normal fights.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Explosive Conflict Strategy   Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:40 am

Or we could have Shin die get ressed, switch all his gear and spec while out of combat and have DMwolf the same to switch to DPS.

There is literally nothing that could go wrong with this plan.
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