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Derpy
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PostSubject: 1.4 balancing discussion   Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:36 pm

Here is the article. The decrease of stuns to 10m will take some getting used to and it means that I can no longer easily control people in PvP transitioning between points (which is apparently the intent). Nowadays I just stun one and force slow another.

The change to Sage knock back is more annoying but at least it will now require a little bit more skill which is fine by me.

Love the resolve changes, no more chain stunning ball carriers making them unstoppable.

Personally I absolutely LOVE these changes:

- Force Speed now has a 20-second cooldown (down from 30) for all Consulars and Inquisitors.
- New Sorcerer/Sage ability, Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend: Heal yourself for a moderate amount. Only usable on yourself. Instant, costs no Force, 30-second cooldown. This ability is trainable at level 18.
- Dark Resilience/Valiance: Now additionally increases the healing dealt by Unnatural Preservation/Force Mend by 15% per point.
- Fadeout/Egress has been redesigned. Now causes Force Speed to remove all roots and snares and grant immunity to roots and snares for the duration.

All really great for PvP but the self heal and lower force speed cd is also useful for PvE

Dunno about the stealth changes as I only have a level 10 Assassin and Scoundrel.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:07 pm

Some of these changes, like to Force Wave, are uncomfortable but I like them all. The pushback for Consulars is now harder to use but appears to be far more effective. The skill tree changes also are very welcomed as the Seer tree was definitely lacking PvP benefits, and making Egress a viable slot to drop points is VERY nice. It only took them four updates to fix that piece of crap effect.

I think the thing I'm most excited for is this.
Quote :
Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18.
I don't even play a Merc/Commando but it is about time they join the party with an interrupt. It is difficult to describe the pain of running flashpoints with three Commandos or Ops with mostly Commandos. The lack of interrupts can greatly increase the difficulty of an encounter. The buffs to Commando healing also are well welcomed, and their heal effects on enemies is a fresh take on TOR healing. I hope to see effects similar to the new Kolto Residue in the future.'

As for the stealth changes, they look good. I can't comment on Shadow/Assassin, but the Operative/Scoundrel changes are essentially more survivability, more frequent, effective, attacks, and a boost to their out-of-stealth combat/survivability. I'm curious to see how these changes pan out.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:08 pm

1.4: where stunlocked to death happens 10 times more often.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:19 am

crazyBE wrote:
1.4: where stunlocked to death happens 10 times more often.

You will only be stun locked the same amount of times as you would now provided your fighting a competent team. IF people are still blowing their stuns as soon as you grab the ball you might get stopped maybe once or twice more, resolve will still be filled up, especially if they put plenty of time between the stuns.

Funny thing was some people suggesting that they get rid of resolve altogether which would just resolve in a massive stun fest.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Darth Dreselus wrote:
crazyBE wrote:
1.4: where stunlocked to death happens 10 times more often.

You will only be stun locked the same amount of times as you would now provided your fighting a competent team. IF people are still blowing their stuns as soon as you grab the ball you might get stopped maybe once or twice more, resolve will still be filled up, especially if they put plenty of time between the stuns.

Funny thing was some people suggesting that they get rid of resolve altogether which would just resolve in a massive stun fest.
I keep seeing people seeing that the resolve system is worse but it is actually better. Can you get stun-locked longer? A little bit, but that's saying the team times it right or just poor timing for you. This new system favors a coordinated team where the old one just didn't matter how much skill in timing stuns you and your allies had. I will have to try it out before judging it, but I think it will a good fix overall. It may hurt a bit in ranked though.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:41 pm

Actually, the new resolve system shouldn't affect good players at all. The new system makes overlapping stuns build less resolve. Good players don't overlap stuns, because then your stun is wasted. I have no idea where anyone is getting the idea that you are going to be stunned for longer. You might be stunned for the maximum duration more often (and even then only when playing with bad PUGs), but the duration of the "stunlock" will not go up.

That being said, I still don't like the change because knowing how to use resolve was one of the few things that separated good players from bad ones. It's yet another way the game's getting dumbed down.
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:46 pm

Pinkie Pie wrote:
Actually, the new resolve system shouldn't affect good players at all. The new system makes overlapping stuns build less resolve. Good players don't overlap stuns, because then your stun is wasted. I have no idea where anyone is getting the idea that you are going to be stunned for longer. You might be stunned for the maximum duration more often (and even then only when playing with bad PUGs), but the duration of the "stunlock" will not go up.

That being said, I still don't like the change because knowing how to use resolve was one of the few things that separated good players from bad ones. It's yet another way the game's getting dumbed down.
Confounded ponies...

It doesn't take a "bad pug" to stun someone who is already being stunned, especially when considering AOE stuns and mezes.
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:23 am

Another thing I realised is that I can no longer lob a cryo on people in cover to leap to them =/

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:22 am

Pinkie Pie wrote:
Actually, the new resolve system shouldn't affect good players at all. The new system makes overlapping stuns build less resolve. Good players don't overlap stuns, because then your stun is wasted. I have no idea where anyone is getting the idea that you are going to be stunned for longer. You might be stunned for the maximum duration more often (and even then only when playing with bad PUGs), but the duration of the "stunlock" will not go up.

That being said, I still don't like the change because knowing how to use resolve was one of the few things that separated good players from bad ones. It's yet another way the game's getting dumbed down.
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Stunlocked to death more often =/= being stunned longer.
Never said that.
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:31 am

Edit: See my post below with actual dev data.

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Last edited by Darth Dreselus on Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:27 pm

crazyBE wrote:
Stunlocked to death more often =/= being stunned longer.
Never said that.
I never claimed that you did. A lot of other people have been saying that though, which is why I used the word "anyone."

A lot of the technical details of the new resolve system are unknown at this point, so it will be interesting once people actually get their hands on the build.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:04 pm

Pinkie Pie wrote:
crazyBE wrote:
Stunlocked to death more often =/= being stunned longer.
Never said that.
I never claimed that you did. A lot of other people have been saying that though, which is why I used the word "anyone."

A lot of the technical details of the new resolve system are unknown at this point, so it will be interesting once people actually get their hands on the build.

Oh you! oops
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:33 am

From the dev tracker:

Allison Berryman wrote:

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.



Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.
Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.
Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun


The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

Since 1000 is the full resolve it means that the minimum stunlock (and this time it really is 'stunlock') is 5s, up from 4s pre 1.4. The maximum stunlock duration of not overlapping consecutive stuns is still the same. This is much better than the 7s I thought it could be.

Sage/Sorc kb has now been extended to 15m. I am happy with sacrificing the 240 degrees for this, the kb was kinda crappy in comparison to other classes.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Saw this in the dev tracker and thought "More black holes, less work? Nice."

Quote :
So here are the changes you'll be seeing in 1.4.3:
- Increased Black Hole Commendations granted by [WEEKLY] Galactic Operations from 8 to 15.
- Increased Black Hole Commendations granted by [WEEKLY] Galactic Crisis Points from 8 to 20.
- The final boss of Terror From Beyond now drops additional Black Hole pieces in story mode. (+2 in 8-man, +4 in 16-man)
- The final boss of Explosive Conflict now drops additional Black Hole pieces in story mode. (+2 in 8-man, +4 in 16-man)
-[WEEKLY] Deadly Operations now grants 10 Black Hole Commendations.
-In nightmare mode, the Dessler Turbo is now guaranteed to drop directly from Karagga the Unyielding.
-In nightmare mode, most bosses in Karagga’s Palace now have a chance to drop the M0-GUL Thrall Droid or Karagga’s Unyielding Helm.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5328793#edit5328793

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:52 pm

And I thought Black Hole comms were absurdly easy to get before.

At least now they aren't top tier, except for implants.

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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:08 pm

Makes it easier to gear my slinger once he hits 50. not complaining
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:46 pm

The increase in Comms would only affect extremely serious endgame players, so I for one will not be as greatly affected by this, what with not being able to be a part of most Ops runs. Still good to see an increase, though.

Maybe people can get 60 comms in a week very easily now. Smiiile!
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PostSubject: Re: 1.4 balancing discussion   Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Skarkdahn wrote:
The increase in Comms would only affect extremely serious endgame players, so I for one will not be as greatly affected by this, what with not being able to be a part of most Ops runs. Still good to see an increase, though.

Maybe people can get 60 comms in a week very easily now. Smiiile!

Extremely serious endgame players are already full bh minimum.
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